Rumor: Madonna to circumcise David?
by auditioning contributor Sarah M.
Madonna and Guy Ritchie’s adoption of David Banda, 1, is already being looked into by human rights groups in Malawi, David‘s country of birth. Now there’s yet another obstacle for Madonna. To circumcise the tot or not?
Even though the adoption has not been finalized, Madonna considers David her new son, and so she wants to raise him following Kabbalah custom. Kabbalah follows Jewish practices and for David to be considered Jewish, David will need to be circumcised.
David’s biological father, Yohanna Banda, 32, has already had David baptized as a Christian. He said, “This goes against the Christian religion and is not something we would ever consider in Africa. We don’t ever get circumcised here. I would urge her to think again.”
In November, Madonna said “I’m going to adopt another Malawian child very quickly. A baby girl this time, in order to redress the balance.” So, the public criticism and legal battle seems to be worth it!
In the western world, at least In the United States, newborn boys are typically circumcised in the hospital before they go home. The procedure is done for medical/traditional reasons, not religious. Jewish baby boys (of observant families) are usually circumcised when they are eight days old as part of a ceremony called the brit milah (or bris).
If you are a Christian, did you circumcise your son? If so, why do you think David’s father said it "goes against the Christian religion"? (According to wikipedia, the Feast of the Circumcision of Our Lord is a Feast Day celebrated on January 1, commemorating the circumcision of Christ.)
Also, if this story is true, do you think it’s right for Madonna to circumcise David now?
Circumcision is a very controversial topic. You are welcome to express your views but please be respectful of other people’s decisions.
Source: The Sun Online , Photo: People, with permission
Tags: David Banda Ritchie, foreign adoptions, Guy Ritchie, Kabbalah, Madonna, Malawi
- Posted on Dec 12, 06 at 10:32AM
- Permalink
- 109 Comments
December 12th, 2006 at 10:37 am
If I were Madonna, I would wait til the adoption was final and then I would probably still end up not doing it. It gets more painful as they get older I would think. I mean, I circumsized my son for traditional reasons and because it is supposedly easier to keep clean and all. Thats my choice. But, at David’s age, why not just leave it alone??? He would most definitely need to be knocked out, right?? I hope she doesn’t do it.
December 12th, 2006 at 10:40 am
I can see the father’s view and Madonna’s view here. The father doesn’t want his son to go against his principles; or the principles he lives under in Africa. However, if a baby is adopted, that baby becomes the adopted child of the adoptive parent. I think Madonna has every right to raise David as she sees fit. You don’t want to stomp on heritage, but you don’t want to break your beliefs either.
As long as they never see this; all of my sons are circumsised. I also think it’s as much a part of Christian belief these days too. It’s not a required act, but it has shown in the past to have health benefits too.
December 12th, 2006 at 10:44 am
I would just like to remark that to my knowledge, the U.S. is one of the few Western countries to circumcise boys. In Europe, for instance, this does not happen. I have no opinion on which is best, but just to show the hole picture I wanted to share this information.
December 12th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Actually, only ~50% of boys in the U.S. are circumcised, and the number decreases each year. The procedure is hardly ever performed on non-Jewish, non-Muslim boys in other western countries. Christianity does not require or even encourage circumcision. In fact, Jesus was circumcised as he was Jewish, not because it was ideal for his followers to be so.
I am a Christian, and will not be circumcising any of my children, boys or girls. The boy’s father is absolutely right. A foreskin is not a birth defect, and should not be removed willy-nilly!
December 12th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Yes I think she should have him circumcised. It looks better and for me it was a religion issue I have two boys and they both are cirumcised. When David grows up and is starting to be intimate he won’t feel akward because his looks different so I think she should do it now because I hear the older you are when you do it the pain/recovery is horrible .
December 12th, 2006 at 10:56 am
I would like to remark that to my knowledge, the U.S. is one of the few Western countries that circumcises baby boys. In Europe,for instance, this in not common at all.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:08 am
The Golden Rule is “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Every world religion has a variation on that theme. The question is “Would Madonna like a surgeon to amputate any part of her anatomy unnecessarily?” The male foreskin is a protective and highly sensitive part of the penis. When people are educated, they keep their sons intact. I pray that Madonna gets educated before doing this irreversible mutilating surgery.
Note from Danielle: I believe what Caroline is saying is that when people are educated about the role of the foreskin, they will understand why it may not be a good idea to remove it.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:12 am
“In the western world, at least in the US, newborn boys are typically circumcised in the hospital before they go home.”
I’m glad you said “at least in the US”, because here in Germany it’s not common at all and I think it’s the same in most other Central European countries.
I think, she should probably wait for the adoption to be finalized before taking a step like that.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:15 am
I’m American and believe that infant circumcision is very wrong. No one should be allowed to permanently alter someone’s genitalia without their permission – especially since there is no medical reason for it so long as hygiene is practiced (there are exceptions of course). No one would dream of doing it to their daughters so I can’t grasp why people do it to their sons.
Based on my beliefs, I obviously don’t think Madonna should circumcise her son. Doing it to a newborn is terrible, but doing it to a one year old child it is downright criminal, not to mention a painful and dangerous procedure. When he’s older, let him decide if he wants to alter his genitals. My guess is that he wouldn’t dream of doing it, but at least the decision is his own.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:23 am
I can only speak from my personal experience as a Christian and not for all Christians as a whole. I am currently pregnant and if we have a sone, my husband and I plan to have him circumcised.
But our decision is not so much based on our faith as it is on the culture we live in. (I know some choose not to circumcise, which is fine and their choice.) I think many Christians in American culture do choose to circumcise their sons- perhaps it is different in African culture and has little to do with being Christian or not.
Also, Jesus was circumcised because he was raised in a Jewish family- so it would only have made sense for his parents to have done that then.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:26 am
We had our son, Austin, circumcised at the hospital the day after he was born. We are Catholic, but that had nothing to do with our choice. We did it for health reasons & our own personal reasons. I didn’t think that it mattered what religion (Christian/Jewish) you are. I don’t think that Madonna should 1.) go against David’s dad’s wishes & 2.) go ahead with the circumcision because the adoption isn’t final yet. I understand that she wants to bring him up with the teaching of Kabbalah, but to do something that isn’t reversible before the child is legally yours just isn’t something that I think she should do (in my opinion).
December 12th, 2006 at 11:35 am
Caroline, I think it is very insensitive to say that educated people keep their sons intact, while implying that those who choose to circumcise are not educated. So, are all Jews uneducated in your opinion? Assuming someone is uneducated about circumcision just because they want to adhere to their religious beliefs and traditions is incorrect and rude.
If David is legally Madonna’s son she should be able to raise him with her own religious beliefs. If you adopted a child would you raise him/her with the religious beliefs of his birth parents or the religious beliefs of you and the rest of your children?
December 12th, 2006 at 11:35 am
Jesus was Jewish.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:41 am
The Bible addresses the circumcision of non-Jewish believers in Acts 15. As a Christian, circumcision isn’t by any means forbidden (it isn’t “against the faith”), but it is expressly not required.
Madonna has expressed adherence to Kabbalah, not Judaism. She has not converted to Judaism, unless I am very wrong. There IS a difference, and I am pretty sure that Kabbalah does not require circumcision from non-Jewish followers.
The whole thing smacks of unbelievability to me–Madonna has never made any kind of statement about whether or not she circumcised Rocco, so the idea that she’d be making a huge deal out of it this time doesn’t make any sense. I think it’s just scandal-mongering.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:48 am
It goes against the Christian faith because the New Testament says not to circumsise – that Christian men should be as God intended them. It was a way for Christians to identify themselves as opposed to Jewish men. Up until the early 20th Century, men in America were not circumsized if they were Christian. Some evangelical Christian faiths took up circumcision for reasons not quite clear (although many argued they wanted to look like Jesus, a Jew) as it clearly states in the New Testament NOT to circumsise.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:51 am
Madonna wouldn’t want someone altering her genitals without her consent. I think the same consideration should be given to her son.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:51 am
Madonna should wait for the adoption to be finalized before she even considers such a drastic thing as a circ. Both of my sons are circ’d but that was done when I was young and stupid, If i ever have another son, he will not be circ’d. There are no benefits, medical or otherwise, to chopping off a part of your sons body. It’s an unnecessary and brutal thing to circ a baby.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:53 am
In the UK circumcision usually does not happen unless for mediacl reasons (I certainly don’t know anyone who is or has had their children circumcised). I assume as with her other children Madonna will raise David in the UK so the comment of “When David grows up and is starting to be intimate he won’t feel akward because his looks different” wont be relevant. if anything he will be the one who is different from the norm!
December 12th, 2006 at 11:55 am
I’m glad you’ve changed to “at least in the US”. We don’t circumcise boys here in Sweden. It is possible if you are for example muslim or jewish but it’s not a regular procedure. I can’t see a reason why it should be done, really. Foreskin is normal and if you keep it clean, you don’t get infections.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:56 am
i hope she gains more respect for her newly acquired son and his heritage and leaves him whole. My sons are not circumcised, i would never dream of mutilating a very personal part of their body with out permission. In the old testament of the bible to be circumcised meant you were higher than the regular people. But when Christ died at the cross for us he denouced the old testament. The new testament is what most Christians go by and it does not say that your child needs to be circumcised to have a covenant with god.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:57 am
My sons are not circumsiced and I think it is an act of cruelty to inflict such a procedure on an infant. Would you circumsice your infant girl? Did you know that a circumsiced male experiences LESS sexual pleasure than an uncircumsiced male? There are SO many reasons not to do this to your baby boy. Please educate yourself.
There are lots of websites that give information on this topic such as, http://www.nocirc.org that should be checked out by any future mamas out there!
December 12th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
Unless Madonna has converted to Judaism and then has David converted, no matter what the status of his penis, he is not Jewish. Circumcision does not make one a Jew. Brit Milah is a requirement of Jews, but it does not have anything to do with one’s status as a Jew. You are a Jew because you are born to a Jewish mother or because you convert.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
We left it up to our sons to decide whether they wanted it done. Our oldest was 6 (now 11) when he decided to have it done. We told him that just because his Dad had it done didn’t mean he needed to have it done, etc. He decided he wanted it done. He had the surgery and it was pretty painful for him. But, it was his decision.
Our other son was 8 (now 9) when he decided to have it done. He played hockey and he said his equipment bothered him. We addressed it as a cleaning issue and again tried to dissuade him. But he did have it done. He didn’t complain about pain at all (probably because he didn’t want to think we were right, lol!)
Our youngest boy is 5 and hasn’t mentioned anything about it, and we will leave it to him.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
I don’t think any child (male or female) should be circumcised. Contrary to what a previous commenter stated, there has never been a reputable study that showed any sort of “health benefit” to removing fully functional tissue from an infant’s genitals. The US is the *only* country where non-religious circumcision takes place on a routine basis, and that is due to misinformation coupled with a lucritive industry that uses infant foreskins in cosmetics.
I hope that Madonna really looks into what circumcision actually entails, especially for an older child, and how the procedure done today bears almost no resemblance to that done historically (today’s procedure removes the equivalent of a 3×5 card!). I hope little David remains intact!
December 12th, 2006 at 12:07 pm
Beth, you say to Caroline, I think it is very insensitive to say that educated people keep their sons intact, while implying that those who choose to circumcise are not educated.
First, circumcising for religious belief is one thing. The rest who do it for tradition reason ARE uneducated. You are altering a baby’s genetalia for crying out loud. For what? So he looks like daddy? So he doesnt feel awkward in front of other boys? Those arent educated reasons.
Thankfully, this practice is less and less done. It certainly not the norm to circumcise infants boys in Canada, thank God.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
My husband is 26 years old, and he is uncircumcised. His penis has never been infected or fallen off, and it doesn’t “look funny.” In fact, his penis is beautiful and it works perfectly! Trust me — there is NO DIFFERENCE. You can’t feel any difference, and there is only a minor difference in appearance — but, hey, so are breasts and men don’t run every time they see a new set of breasts! I really am concerned about people’s decision to circumcise based on “appearance” and “cleanliness.” Circumcision is MAJOR SURGERY for a tiny baby to undergo, and it really breaks my heart that so many baby boys are having this procedure for superficial and medically inaccurate reasons. I know many people have religious beliefs that mandate this procedure, and, while I am very respectful of religious freedom, I am still concerned that this practice is considered humane, whether for religious or superficial reasons.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
I’m an adoptive mother of a son from another country/culture and he is not circumcized. I at least think Madonna needs to wait until the adoption is finalized before she does anything permanent.
We’re currently expecting a son through pregnancy and have researched the circumcision issue extensively. I believe that the foreskin has many purposes, including sexual and protective. I also don’t feel that it’s my right to choose to have a piece of my newborn’s body removed for cosmetic reasons. We don’t circumcize girls to prevent a few urinary tract infections; why do it to our boys? I urge anyone expecting a boy to carefully research before deciding.
As a Christian, I believe that circumcision is part of the Old Testament covenants- much like animal sacrifice- and we no longer need to circumcize since Christ made the ultimate sacrifice. Plus, Biblical circumcision was far less invasive and disfiguring than the procedure we do now. I consider it an act of worship to leave my son the way God created him.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:11 pm
I am a proud mother of an intact son. I do not think that Madonna should circumcisize her son because of the religion that SHE has choosen to believe and live by…just because she is raising her adopted son by her religion does not mean that when he is older he will find his own beliefs. What if HE chooses another religion ?? Not to mention that RIc is totally not needed!!
December 12th, 2006 at 12:13 pm
Caroline, you need to take your foot out of your mouth. I am highly insulted by your statement. You are the one who is not educated by the posting you had posted. I am an educated a woman. I graduated from college and I am currently working towards an M.S degree.
I had my son circumcised when he was 8 days old, for religious reasons.
I think David is too old to be circumcised. And again it is none of my business nor do I have the right to pass judgement on anyone’s decison that is different then mine.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
I think that it is unfair to compare female circumcision with male circumcision. Removing the foreskin does not impair sexual function in men. Call it mutilation if you want, but you’d be using hyperbole.
Female circumcision is the true mutilation. It includes the removal (not always in a sertile, surgical environment) of the clitoris and sometimes the the labia usually while a girl is still quite young to prevent a woman from “needing to wander” from her husband.
Please don’t compare the two.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:15 pm
My son is intact as will be any an all future sons I have. I think it IS uneducated to circumcise your son for health or cleanliness reasons only. There is no proven health benefit to circumcision and those who think otherwise are living in the dark ages. Look at the extremely sad and tragic story of David Reimer.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
As far as doing something permanent Madonna needs to wait until he’s legally hers.
I have to disagree with “him changing his religion when he gets older”. As parents in ANY faith, one will raise their child to their standards of beliefs, and she is not exception.
So we cannot scold one for raising their child how they believe, whether they change religions when they are older or not.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Both of my boys are intact. I’m a Christian and it says clearly in the New Testament that circumscision is no longer required. I don’t, however, think that this goes against the religion. It’s just not required.
I wouldn’t put one of my sons through it. I feel like if we protect baby girls from genital mutilation we should do the same for our baby boys. I know it’s a touchy subject, but those are my opinions.
My boys have never had any problems with being intact and learning to care for themselves is as natural as a baby girl learning how to care for her private areas, folds, and creases.
I know Madonna may have religious issues going on but…I would so not do that to my newly adopted son…or any son.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
I also have a son, adopted from another country. My husband and I did not and will not have him circumcised —unless there turns out to be a medically necessary reason to do so, which is very rare.
At first my husband was in favor of circumcision and I was hotly against it, mostly b/c unless they are newborns, children are put under general anesthesia for it. I saw absolutely NO REASON to put my son, who came home to me at 6 months old, under general anesthesia for a cosmetic surgery.
I completely understand why people chose to do it for religious reasons (Jewish tradition for example) but the US is turning a corner and fewer parents are having their sons circumcised at birth now.
If Madonna wishes to pursue this for her new son, I hope she does atleast wait until the adoption is final, which as I understand it isn’t at this point in time.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
I can see how the father would be against it but in reality he is no longer in his care and if Madonna gets the adoption then baby David is legally hers and she has a righ to do so.
although circumscison is sometimes a religious choice it can also happen to be a healthy choice.
But I agree w/ an earlier post the older they get the more upleasant it can be. And it’s NOT the end of the world to not have your kids circumsized.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
While I understand its a part of her religion, I still feel that circumcision should be left to consenting adults and not done on children.
There are no illnesses that its been PROVEN to protect against so there should be no rush.
Once he’s of age and would like to continue to be a Kabbalist and feels that circumcision is required of him from his God then he can have it done himself.
I do not think its ethical to submit unwilling and unconsenting children to a painful cosmetic surgery.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
I think it shows a massive disrespect for David to circumcise him. She should respect the ways of his culture. I don’t think christianity has anything to do with it, but in Africa they don’t circumcise. It isn’t necessary.
The procedure, when it is done here in the US, is not for medical reasons so much as just people doing what everyone else does without questioning why. I hardly know anyone who circumcises their boys unless they are Jewish, and Madonna is not Jewish.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:04 pm
My mom a physcian and delivers babies weekly. She says that around 90% of all the boys she has delievered; she circumsizes.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
Dominiqu: I hate to disagree with you, but there is a difference!! Your husband has more sensitivity. He was not scared as a baby, either mentally, physically or emotionally. His penis functions as it was ment to, as well as a number of other positive things about being intact:)
December 12th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
I live in the west coast in an urban area. The trend here is for people NOT to circumcise. I know its not as common not to cicrumcise in the midwest. The US is a big place and people here can’t be lumped together so easily…in cities on both the east and west coast less people are cicrumcising than ever before.
That said, Madonna should leave that boy’s penis alone. Thats my two cents…her “religion” has nothing to do with it.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:24 pm
When healthcare is socialized and the government flips the bill, circumcision is not routine – it is far too expensive. And that probably has more to do with why most men outside of the US are not circumcised than anything else.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
peg:
if your mom is a ped in the US – I hope she is asking parents who want to circumcise their sons why they are requesting a procedure that is no longer recommended by any medical authority in the world, including the American Academy of Pediatrics.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
I would wait until the adoption is final. I’m a christian and my son is circumcised, for health, tradiontal reasons.
I think it is Madonna choice weather to do it or not to do it. But I think she should wait until the adoption is final to do anything.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:36 pm
Dominiqu, I’m sure it was an oversight, but I never said that Caroline was wrong about what she said. That post was by Clio. You said that uneducated people get their babies circumcised so that they look like their daddy-that couldn’t be farther from the truth in my case. My husband is NOT circumcised & it was left up to him what he wanted done. Since he had lived with it I thought that he would know better about how it “felt”. I don’t regret having it done. My doctor as well as his pediatrician gave pros & cons to having it done & I find them to be VERY WELL EDUCATED.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
Katey – We compare male and female circumcision because they are comparable! Why don’t you think that they’re comparable? Because US society says it’s acceptable to do it to boys but not to girls?
As far as the procedure, it IS the same thing. Do a little research on circumcision, and you’ll learn that one of the reasons that circumcision became routine in the US was to prevent masterbation. Now you see the similarities with female circumcision? Both remove genitalia that increases sensitivity and pleasure to prevent certain sexual behaviors. Both permanantely disfigure the genitals. Both are painful and dangereous. Both are done without the baby/child’s permission.
With all those similarties, it’s impossible NOT to compare the two.
December 12th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
SOmetimes there are medical reasons,too.. Boys normally are not circumcised in the country I live, but as in my little cousins case, the foreskin was to narrow or something, so it had to be done… It was no big deal either.
I think it is ok either way you decide.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:02 pm
Stephanie–I think your comment was addressed to me and not Peg. Why should my mom ask the reasons behind her patients wanting a circumcision? It’s their business and as long as no journal comes out saying it’s detrimental to the health of a baby boy, there’s no reason to question that individual parent’s decision. Also, my mom’s not a ped., most ped’s don’t deliver babies. She’s a family physcian so she usually deals with the entire family. It may not be “recommended” anymore but it’s not “not recommended.” So what’s the point, really? I think it’s more tradition. Also, most insurance companies pay for circumcisions.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:14 pm
my three year old son was circumcised a day after he was born at the hospital, however i have a six year old nephew who is not circumcised because his mother believes he should follow in the religious traditions of his father who is carribean, unfortunately for the past two years or so my nephew comes back home from swimming or karate camp crying that he is constantly made fun of by his peers because of how his “privates” looks….
it has made him miserable in recent months and my sister is now considering putting him under the knife if it will boost his self esteem and make him a happier kid which he once was!…
i support MALE circumcision so madonna should go ahead and circumcise David when he is rightfully hers!…
December 12th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
I do not believe in COSMETIC SURGERY – which is exactly what it is..what right does Madonna have in cutting this little boys penis? She won’t even be raising him- it will be an army of nannies- she is so transparent!!
December 12th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
I can’t believe people are comparing this to female mutilation!!! What are people drinking????
December 12th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
I just want to add my life experience on this one, not to give an opinion. My little brother was circumcised at 2 1/2 due to medical reasons, without it he would have been in constant pain as i understand it. However, i do remember him being in severe pain when he came back for several days, and a lot of crying ensued.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
I once asked my mom how she and my dad decided on circumcision for my brothers (or not to circumcise, I don’t know which they have, and I’m not about to go find out). She told me that she left it up to my dad, as he knew more about these things. I too, will do the same thing.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
My hospital’s circumcision rate is 95% (we are in NJ) so I think it depends on where you live. My sons were circ’ed and I definitely can’t imagine going any other way.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Luckily, one of my courses this semester was Sexuality and Health, and we looked into both male and female circumcision.
Just to dispell some ‘myths’
Circumcision is not cleaner and children are more prone to infections. Despite past thinking, an uncircimcised penis is very easy to keep clean.
If a doctor tells you it will help prevent UTIs later in life, it takes 100 circumcisions to prevent one UTI. Also, with penile cancer, smoking is a better predictor of getting the cancer than being circumcised or not.
And circumcision can shorten the adult length of the penis, as the foreskin expands with the penis. Take that away, and he’ll lose length, which is the envy of every adult male. We’ve all gotten that ‘are you happy with your penis size?’ spam-mail in our inbox.
Also, the foreskin is full of nerve endings, and removal can diminsh sexual pleasure later in life.
The rate of male circumcision is going down in all countries, and the US is still lagging behind in those stats.
Before you make a decision, do some research (Wikipedia is a great source and is neutral) and ask your doctor and/or pediatriction.
If you are going to circumcise your son, please, PLEASE make sure they use some form of anesthesia. OBs usually do not, while pediatricians do.
And read up on your state or country’s stance on circumcision. Many are now denoucing routine male circumcision, including the US.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
In New Zealand, boys are rarely circumcised unless there is a medical reason or the parents want it done for cultural or religious reasons. Doctors here don’t recommend it and you would have to really search for a doctor who was willing to do it because parents thought it was more aesthetic or hygienic. I have 2 grown sons and it never entered my head to have them circumcised. I was surprised that it is so common in the US.
December 12th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
alexp
Regardless of why people may choose to get their sons circumcised today, it still is in no way comparable to what goes on in countries that still practice female circumcision. You talk about mutilation of the penis due the removal of the foreskin? Well, what about the girls who have their clitoris removed and labia sewn shut with only a small hole for menstruation in order that they stay a virgin?
No, I can’t really say that it is comparable.
It is called magnitudes. Some people choose to pierce their new-born child’ ears, which could also be seen as mutilation. Yes, some people see male-circumcision as a bad thing, but try and keep it on the scale it should be.
December 12th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
We are a Christian home and NO we did not circumcise our son.
He was born **perfect**; there was no need to change anything about him.
December 12th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
My little brother had very bright red hair as a child, and often was made fun of for it. I was incredibly flat chested until about 16, and I too, dealt with many comments. Not once did my mother suggest that he dye his hair or that I get breast implants. Trying to protect your children from mockery is impossible. Of course you want to shield them from it, but there will always be something. Unnecessary surgery does not seem to be the answer.
December 12th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
When religion is used to coerce people into violating the human rights of other fellow humanbeings it is a travesty of God’s love.
Forced genital cutting on helpless children is a societal sickness. It doesn’t matter if it is being inflicted on a boy or a girl. If you think it does, you are sexist.
December 12th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
I think that men must have the choice whether they want to be circumcised ot not, it’s their body, so it must be their choice. Let themm just be! I’ll never circumcised a son of mine.
December 12th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
Gee, maybe she should lop off one of his ears while she’s at it (cutting off random body parts for no reason, that is). Ridiculous that she thinks it’s her RIGHT to mutilate his body. Seriously.
December 12th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
I see nothing wrong with it, however, that little boy is far too old to be circumsized. It will definately be painful and, in my opinion, useless to circumsize a child. For any reason, a child should not have to suffer pain because of a piece of skin that, in the long run, is beneficial. If he were a newborn, or only a few weeks old, it wouldn’t be so bad, but this could also scar him for life is she’s planning on doing it in the traditional way of having a Rabbi perform the procedure.
BUT, I’m also not even sure how reliable this information is, I mean, people just love to assume things about celebrities who have different beliefs than they do, so…I thinkit’s a bad idea, and I wouldn’t do that to my own child, but we don’t know how much of this story is actually true.
December 12th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
I haven’t heard too much about what the dads thought. At my house – Both boys are circ’ed. And quite frankly I educated myself, made sure my husband was educated, and then I let him make the decision. Why?? Because I have never, nor will I ever, live with that piece of equipment. My husband has lived with it, and his friends, brother, etc have. So – he got to make the choice for his sons from an adult standpoint.
December 12th, 2006 at 4:39 pm
Katey, If it makes you feel better to think that male circumcision is a lesser evil than female, then go right ahead and believe it.
But the reality is that in male circumcision the foreskin in not only cut but torn away from the penis, and typically done without anesthesia. Watch this clip and then tell me that it’s not the same thing. (Warning – graphic)
http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/
December 12th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
I am so happy to see so many women coming out against circumcision. I did not choose to circumcise my son as I consider it to be mutilation, which it is.
Bravo to all of the progressive mothers out there!
Laura.
December 12th, 2006 at 5:23 pm
I think that you need to be educated and make a decision that fits with your beleifs
None of my 2 are circumcized= once m husband saw what it looked like he was on board too. and As the midwife told him- by the time you woul “look the same” you wont be looking!!
December 12th, 2006 at 6:17 pm
My mother gave the reason “So they look like their father”. I don’t really see the big deal, wether or not i choose to do it to my own sons will be up to me, as it should be up to Madonna when David is legally his. It’s a deision made within the family, noone else. Everyone denocing the pratice needs to mind their own business. If you didn’t do it to your sons, great, don’t tell others they’ve hurt their babies and are uneducated because they’ve done it.
December 12th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
If you wouldn’t cut off part of your daughters genitalia (clitoral hood), why would you cut off your son’s foreskin? The tissue is genetically the same in origin. There is NO health benefit in doing so. To say so ignores current research. Imagine how it would feel to have part of your genitals cut as an adult? The pain is not different for a child. EMLA (pain relief used on baby boys) does not really block or dull pain very well. It is NOT a painless procedure. If your son wants to lose his foreskin, let HIM choose that as an adult.
December 12th, 2006 at 7:25 pm
I live in Australia and when my son was born 14 months ago – and my husband wanted him to be circumcised – it took us 4 weeks to find a doctor willing to perform it.
We then had to have a meeting where the doctor told us only 1 in 6 babies in Australia currently still have it done – and were forced to watch a series of pictures of what they do and what can go wrong.
My husband still decided he would like it done and I had him go into the surgery with our son to watch what happened.
My son didnt have any pain – or any problems and everything is fine now – but after seeing the pictures I can understand why more parents are making the decision not to go through with it. I also think this doctor has the right idea – as parents need to be fully aware of what the surgery entails and the risks of what can potentially happen
December 12th, 2006 at 7:34 pm
Holy Cow, some of you need to view a video of a newborn baby getting a circumcision done. They DO feel pain and suffer greatly. It is quite a barbaric thing.
And to Kyah, if it is painful for a child to endure how can you say it is fine for a newborn? A newborn baby is just acclimating to life outside the womb–sounds are loud, everything is bright–it is quite an adjustment. Imagine being new to our world and having one of your first experiences being unimaginable pain and being unable to escape it?
Seriously, view a baby getting one done before you submit your infant to this.
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/video.htm
December 12th, 2006 at 7:42 pm
I let my husband make that decision for our son and he opted for it. I think it’s entirely cultural–I would have never done it had our son been born in my country simply because it’s not done often in Europe. I don’t think it’s fair to equate it with female cicumcision–circumcised men don’t experience pain during the intercourse or are rendered unable to experience sexual pleasure. Also, to say it’s “uneducated” to opt for circumcision is so offensive. I think the whole debate is such a waste of time and energy–similar to that of new moms who think they know it all and get terribly upset if they don’t give birth vaginally (because they somehow “failed” as women). As long as it’s done very early I see no problem, but I’d prefer not to do it to an older child unless absolutely necessary.
December 12th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
it’s really a personal decision that never improves with discussions on the internets. what ever madonna and her family decide will be the right thing for their family.
December 12th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
How ironic is this, I am in the middle of my term paper for an English course, and my topic is circumcision. I did not circumcise my son, so that tells you my personal beliefs, but in my research I learned that many Jews are turning on the practice and having alternative ceremonies that don’t involve surgically removing a part of a baby’s body. For Madonna to think he MUST be circumcised to be Jewish is sort of ignorant to me.
December 12th, 2006 at 9:23 pm
Jesus was Jewish, yes, because Christianity, before the New Testament, was basically Judaism. There was no Christianity until after Jesus was born and then crucified. The Torah is the Old Testament in essence. the difference between Jews and Christians is where their beliefs went after Jesus died….Jews did not believe that Jesus was the son of God. Those who did, branched into Christianity. That is the difference. I think there are some very superficial reasons for circumcising but religious reasons are not in that category. I believe in freedom and respect for religion. I am a Christian myself but my research has shown that you can be Jewish and be intact.
December 12th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
I would not circumcise him. My nephew was circumcised at 3 days old in the hospital. His poor penis bled like crazy and he had to have stiches in it. It never looked right after that. And imagine the pain he went through…poor little guy. I know my sister regrets her decision to go ahead with it.
December 12th, 2006 at 9:36 pm
I left it up to my husband. I do take issue with people likening it to female circumcision, as the two are really not the same at all. Female circumcision is ghastly beyond belief and causes a lifetime of pain. It’s torture, imo. Not quite the same for males.
December 12th, 2006 at 9:39 pm
“When healthcare is socialized and the government flips the bill, circumcision is not routine – it is far too expensive. And that probably has more to do with why most men outside of the US are not circumcised than anything else.”
Thats so wrong on several socio-economic levels, but I’ll just leave you with this: People in Canada can pay (less than $250 CA in most cases) to have their sons circumcised, but whats most interesting, study and after study shows a stronger correlation between low income level & circumcision. So when someone suggested someone was uneducated if they chose to do this, they’re probably right as (although there are exceptions) low income level = lack of education = circumcision (at least in North America), its statistically accurate.
Furthermore, I have to wonder why any parent would chose to amputate a part of their child’s body if there wasn’t something wrong with it. Who are you to decide something so intimate and that really has nothing to do with you? Sexual fetishism?
Lastly, in regards to the ped that doesn’t surprise me. These are the same doctors that would rather pump drugs into our systems than treat the causes of illness and disease, who can’t string a coherent sentence together in regards to breastfeeding, and more than anything else are paid off by big corporations to use their products. In countries where circumcision is not the norm the need for Viagra is nearly non-existant!
December 12th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
We have 2 boys — 12 and 9 and they were each circumsized within 2 days of their births. We are Christians, but we did not have this done for religious reasons at all — purely cultural and for hygiene purposes. I am certainly glad we did. Undoubtedly along life’s path, boys are going to end up in a locker room with other boys — and like it or not, I don’t want my boys to have to feel different than the boys around them in that way. (BTW, we live in a community of 90%+ Christians — I didn’t even meet a person who wasn’t Christian until high school! Imagine the cultural shock when I moved to NYC in college and lived among such diversity!) And, heck, it’s hard enough to keep little boys clean — a little extra help is a good thing. Also, my FIL was not circumcized and growing up always wished he had been — but by that time did not want to have the surgery.
December 12th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
IMO I think that once David is her son it’s her familys choice….
I don’t see anything wrong with having it done…. My mother had myself and my 3 brothers… For my older brtoher she had it done, but for the younger 2 she didn’t… She left it up to them…. Both of my younger brothers since then had it done, and it was much more painful…
December 12th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
To one of the first posters- J., many if not most Christians do not believe in circumcision.
And in the past circumcision was believed to have medical benefits, but they are so few and far between and the benefits of NOT circumcising are equal. All highly respected medical entities no longer recommend circumcision for “medical” reasons, since it is not medically ethical, and urge that it be left as a family/religious decision.
Circumcision began in the western world as a “medical” practice because it was thought to deter masturbation which was once believed to cause insanity. So the medical beginning of circumcision is very far from what people would be ok with today as a reason to cut off a part of their child’s body.
December 12th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
I don’t have kids, but if I ever have a boy, I won’t get him circumsised because, to me, it’s unnecessary and I wouldn’t want to purposly put my baby through pain or to see him bleed. Mothers do all they can to protect their babies from pain and injury and yet they put them through all that pain so shortly after they’re born when they need the most protecting.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
Annabelle-
Keeping an intact penis is not any harder. I do NOTHING to clean my son’s penis. He is 3 and we’ve never had a problem. My husband and his dad are both intact, at age 5 when my husband’s foreskin retracted completely his dad showed him how to clean himself daily in the shower, and that was it. At ages 28 and 60, these 2 men have never ever had an issue with cleanliness. The foreskin is an organ that functions to lubricate and protect the glans, not make it dirty.
I also think the locker room excuse is pretty shallow. Circumcision is now considered a cosmetic surgery. Kids will make fun of anything, my son will be taught not to be ashamed of his body. My husband said he was teased a little but it was all typical locker room stuff, everyone got picked on for something. My son’s foreskin is not mine to take. If he’s 8 or 9 or 15 and says he wants it gone, so be it, it is his choice and not mine. An infant’s treshold of pain is actually higher than an adult’s. I work in a hospital and it is very unpopular among medical staff, doctors included.
When some have used the word “uneducated” I think they mean uneducated fully on the most recent information about circumcision. A lot of people on here are giving reasons that are very outdated and not what the medical entities are reporting now. Maybe undereducated is a better term.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:10 pm
Madonna has no right to circumcise that boy… weather he becomes her child or not! I wish circumcision would be concidered ILLEGAL for non medical reasons on infants. A male should be able to decide FOR HIMESELF if he wants to remove his foreskin or not once he is 18 years of age!
My 4 year old son is intact, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. He will decide what he wants to do with HIS body when he is over 18!!!!!
Oh, and before anyone mentions religion to me….I still stand by my decision. I do not feel a parent should have the right to remove a body part of their child just because of their religious beliefs. That child should also decide what religion they want to worship at the age of 18! I will not force my beliefs onto my children like my Mother did and still does to this day.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:12 pm
Danielle-
Wikipedia talks about Catholics still celebrating this as a “Naming Ceremony” similar to what many Jews are calling the brit shalom, a “naming ceremony” that is taking place of a bris involving surgical circumcision.
First of all wikipedia is a very unreliable source for any type of information since anyone can add or edit its content. Second, Catholics are Christians, but as far as I know any Protestant denomination I have ever attended and learned about does not make a point to celebrate this. The spilling of Christ’s blood is both celebrated and mourned in many ways, so this being the first spilling of his blood- and being celebrated/mourned- does not mean circumcision is believed to be a rightful practice upon all Christian boys. Christians believe we are all born perfect in God’s eyes, exactly as He intended us to be.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:36 pm
Female circumcision is not any different, the clitoral hood serves the same function as the foreskin. How would you fee if a grown man said he thinks a girl’s vagina looks better circumcised? Creepy, right? Then why use this reason for our baby boys? in that case, if your child is born with big ears, do you have a plastic surgeon fix them at 2 days old?
My son is about to have his adenoids removed in 2 days. It reminded me that there was a time in the 20th century when a tonsillectomy was “routine” newborn procedure. Should be all have our appendix out at birth? We don’t need that really do we?
For the record, many insurance companies are withdrawing reimbursement for circumcision. Some still pay for it, but Medicaid for example only pays for it in 13 states. It is being more and more regarded as a cosmetic surgery.
December 13th, 2006 at 12:09 am
Of course circumcision is against Christianity, and 85% of the world’s Christians don’t cut. http://TLCTugger.com/FAQ-CHRISTIANITY.htm
Of course it’s wrong to circumcise Madonna’s 1-year old son now, or at any time. Circumcision is risky cosmetic surgery that impairs sexual function. No national health organization on earth recommends routine circumcision. HIS body, HIS decision.
SIGN THIS PETITION to tell Madonna that all children have a right to intact genitals: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/635240482
or shorter:
http://TLCTugger.com/Madonna
December 13th, 2006 at 1:02 am
I had my son circumcised a day after he was born. IMO there is no right or wrong about this. I think it is up to the parents. I do feel however that if people quote things out of the bible that they should live their entire life by the word of the bible. Not just different quotes out of it here and there to make a point. Even if this subject had not been brought up on CBB I have always had that same belief about quoting the bible.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:01 am
Personally I think Madonna should wait until she’s legally adopted David before she has circumcision done on him.
Age-wise David may be a little old for the surgery (at least compared to a newborn), however it’s probably still possible to have it done.
I wonder now if Madonna had her older son Rocco circumcized, and if so, when? At birth (he was born in the US, wasn’t he?) or when she had the family convert to Kaballah? (How old would Rocco have been at that point?)
Anyway as far as circumcision being a healthy or multilating procedure depends upon who you talk to. My two brothers weren’t, although they should have been becaue according to my mom hey were born with a condition known as Hypospadias which means their urethra is positioned slightly off…or something like that.
So now here’s a question to pose, for those of you who are anti-circumcision, what would you do though if your son was born with Hypospadias? Has anyone here ever had a son born with this condition? and what did you do, if anything?
December 13th, 2006 at 7:13 am
My son is being circumcised because he has a medical problem with his foreskin being too tight, but otherwise I wouldn’t consider it. I think that Madonna should make her own choice, but do it as quickly as possible because it gets more painful as the child grows older
December 13th, 2006 at 9:39 am
Just wanted to inform everyone here that the NIH is backing circumcision as an effective means of combatting the spread of HIV.
Here is the link to the story on MSNBC:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16184582/
I think those who are criticizing circ’ing, and say there are no health benefits, should read this article written by well-educated individuals. In 3rd world countries, especially those in Africa and in India, where AIDS is running rampant, and the use of condoms is not prevalent, sacrificing a little foreskin to save lives is a humane choice.
Either way, it’s a personal choice, and everyone’s opinons should be respected.
December 13th, 2006 at 9:44 am
Madonna should not be allowed to circumcise David….even if the adoption goes through. That decision should be left up to DAVID himself when he is an adult!!!
My 4 year old is intact and will get to decide what he wants to do when he is over the age of 18.
December 13th, 2006 at 11:58 am
An interesting thing about circumcision is that it has been proven to protect men (somewhat) from HIV in heterosexual sex. Look at msnbc.com, under health, there is an article about it. If I have a baby boy one day, I will have him circumsized because of this. I hope he will never be exposed to such a horrible thing but what is worse, a few days of pain or a lifelong, deadly disease? Yes there are condoms but if I can do anything to protect my children from std’s I will do it.
December 13th, 2006 at 1:07 pm
For Christians, Jesus was the final sacrifice. There is no need to sacrifice part of the flesh. In my opinion, for a Christian to circumcise for religious reasons is almost like saying that the sacrifice of Jesus was not enough.
And frankly, as a man, I find the other reasoning for circumcision to be insulting and bordering on misandry.
Hygiene? Men can learn to use soap and water. We’re not stupid and we’re not animals. I still have to wash my circumcised penis. Really, no difference there.
STDs? Men can learn to keep it in their pants, wear a condom, and only have sex in a monogamous, trusting relationships. We have self control. Circumcised men still have to practice safe sex. Really, no difference there, either. Don’t forget that the United States has both a higher circumcision rate AND a higher HIV rate than countries in Europe. And in most European countries, almost no one is circumcised.
UTIs? Baby girls get UTIs more than any boys, yet girls are taught to wipe front to back and are treated with antibiotics. They are rarely offered surgery and no one ever offers to cut off parts of their genitals. Even in the most pro-circumcision studies, you’d have to cut 100 boys to prevent one antibiotic-treatable UTI. Why are the genitals of men so expendable? We’re people, too, you know.
Cancer? According to the American Cancer Society, SMOKING is a factor. A foreskin is not even listed a risk factor. Men can choose not to smoke. Also, men get breast cancer far more often than penile cancer. Men can choose not to be ignorant of their actual risk. Lots of circumcised men smoke. Circumcised men get penile cancer, too. No difference there, either.
LOOKING like daddy? Do you think little boys care about how Daddy’s penis looks? If they do notice, they’ll notice it has hair and is a lot bigger. This is more about Daddy’s insecurities about his missing pieces than his little boy. Daddy needs to be a man about it and suck it up!
Teasing? Get this! Kids tease about everything!! Too fat, too skinny, too smart, too dumb, ugly, whatever, kids tease! And this has been going on since long before Americans starting circumcising and will continue until humanity goes extinct. The solution has always been to build your child’s self-esteem. My circumcision certainly didn’t protect me from teasing. I had to stick up for myself! Men aren’t cowards. Besides, ladies, ask your husbands how often they were checking out the other guys in the locker room. Thought so.
Needless to say, since I respect my son’s personal property (his body) and have confidence in my parenting ability, my son is intact. This wasn’t and isn’t a “family” decision since the family doesn’t use my son’s penis. He does. HIS BODY, HIS CHOICE!!
And if he does decide to do it as an adult, it’ll hurt a lot less than it would as a baby. Adults get general anesthesia, plus all the post-op drugs they can handle. Babies get EMLA if they’re lucky and many doctors just don’t bother with pain relief. In any case, forget about baby getting post-op pain medicine. Parents forget the big cut and think the baby is just hungry or collicky.
Really, most of the reason that circumcision still goes on is money. Doctors make a ton of money from circumcisions and they aren’t quick to dispell myths and misandry. They also forget to mention that MRSA is becoming a large problem in American hospitals and newborn babies with wounds on their genitals are at real risk from infections.
WARNING: Graphic photos of newborns with MRSA infections after a circumcision.
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/DOC/mrsa.html
And cut guys can experience pain during intercourse. If the “doctor” takes off too much skin, erections can be painful and can cause curvature of the penis. Its also very easy to be “rubbed raw”, since even with lubricant and a ton of foreplay, circumcised sex is very abrasive.
Reminder: Talking to your profit motived doctor about circumcision does not equal educated. Talking to your non-read friends about circumcision does not equal educated. If you think that most of the world’s men are circumcised, you are not educated. If you don’t know what Gardasil is, you are not educated. If you don’t know what Meatal Stenosis is, you are not educated. If you haven’t heard the story of David Reimer, you are not educated. If you haven’t read about Dr. Schoen and his circumcision poetry, you are not educated. If you think that circumcision is recommended by any major medical organization, you are not educated. Think outside the American box!
December 13th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
In my view, circumcision is barbaric mutilation. Like many religious customs which developed in response to hygiene and other needs, this has become obsolete here in the modern age of daily hot showers and refrigeration.
That said, I respect religious belief, but I also strongly feel that if my parents had circumcised me, I would definately consider suing somebody over it when I grew up. Several of these cases have come forward over the years.
Without getting unduly graphic, the human male is born with a foreskin because it is SUPPOSED to be there, for a few reasons, enhanced sexual pleasure only being one of them.
I predict that this custom will be all but gone within a few generations, except for strictly observant religious people. One last point – I think it’s grim that Madonna, a woman has the power to decide to mutilate a male baby’s genitals because it appeals to her own religion/philosophy. What’s to prevent a parent from piercing a baby’s tongue or nipple for example, as it may appeal to their personal philosophy?
A child is born with this body part and nobody has the right to remove it without his/her consent. Security of person is not age-relative.
December 13th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
I’m so glad there seem to be at least some sensible people here! IMO, circumcation on newborns and kids is completely unnecessary and cruel (except if it is for medical or maybe religious reasons).
The US are nearly the ONLY western country that continue routine circumcation of newborns. And the reasons given are pretty lame as well. There simply is no proven health benefit and it isn’t more hygienic either! The locker room arguement is, as somebody already pointed out, pretty shallow as well.
I live in central europe and I’ve never met anyone who’d want their son to be circumcised!
My father isn’t circumcised, my grandfather wasn’t, my brothers aren’t, my husband isn’t and my sons aren’t either of course.
NONE OF THEM ever had any kind of problems with it! The foreskin is a natural protection of the penis and not something that needs to be cut away!
And to the bible fanatics out there: “Christianity” has nothing to do with circumcation! The NT states that men shouldn’t be circumcised. It’s not forbidden, but there’s no need to do it. Jesus was circumcised because he was a Jew!
Besides, why would you mutilate a little boys body in such a horrible way? Aren’t humans born the way god himself intended them to be?
And I wouldn’t say people who let their babies be circumcised are uneducated, but I can certainly see where this comes from. I mean, who in their right mind would do something so cruel, painful and drastic to his own baby for (in many/most) cases no valid reason at all?
December 13th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
My father is west African (Yoruba from Nigeria) and he was circumsized (I don’t know the details of when) and my parents (my mother is a US-American from NY) had my brother circumsized (as an infant) who was born in a Catholic Hospital in Nairobi, Kenya 35 years ago. My brother had his son circumsized 9 years ago at birth. So my family background supports circumcision.
I, on the other hand, have a German husband who is not circumsized and we chose not to circumsize our son and honestly, I was glad that we didn’t do it because I don’t believe that it is necessary. Had my husband had religious beliefs in favor of it, I might have had to reconsider my decision.
As are most decisions before the age of 18, it is the choice of the parents and once Madonna adopted David, his biological father gave up all rights of deciding David’s future. But is it right for her to impose her beliefs on a child who is clearly coming from a different cultural background just because she has legal rights to him ? And maybe Rocco is circumsized and she wants David not to feel different but isn’t adopting a child out of your cultural background about celebrating the differences a little not erasing them ?
Of course I don’t know the whole story and maybe there are other serious reasons for considering it other than her beliefs. In the end it really isn’t anyone’s business as long as she isn’t breaking any law.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
I never realized this was such a big deal to people! Just to contradict a bit though…doctors don’t make much money from doing that procedure. I almost feel like the minority that I believe it’s totally ok and up to the parents. I believe it’s more traditional than anything else…like a custom. I believe that most of the people posting these comments about the ‘brutality’ of this minor procedure must be in the minority because I have personally yet to meet someone so against this in the United States. I also lived in Norway for many years and I know they do not do this procedure, but it’s more based on custom…not health reasons.
December 13th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
How about this for a reason for circumcision? Talk about a potentially life-saving procedure.
12-13) 12:17 PST SAN FRANCISCO — Two major studies of male circumcision in Africa have found that the simple surgical procedure reduces the risk of HIV infection by half – a hugely important result that is likely to prompt many African nations hard hit by AIDS to promote it as a means to control the epidemic.
December 13th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Bravo JorgeM!
Thank you for the male perspective. I am so saddened to read posts here that treat circumcision so flippantly. I hurt for all the infant boys who will endure unnecessary circumcisions.
December 13th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
Yes, thanks for the male perspective.
In terms of the recent studies coming from Africa, ALMOST ALL (as I have read many of them in the past two months) reported low condom use. They are saying that circumcision can potenitally lower the risk of contracting HIV if no condom is used. In many African cultures, condoms are a no-no, as it means one partner doesn’t trust the other, they think their partner is infected, etc. And condoms are available to the public, both in stores and in clinics. But there is a stigma attached to condoms, so many young people do not use them. And it is very difficult to take results from tests in Africa and apply them to North America. This was one point I made in my final paper in my Sexuality and Health course, of which my topic was male circumcision.
In Western society, the use of condoms is higher, and it’s not seen as a social stigma. And a condom is the best way, besides keeping it in your pants, to prevent STI transmission, including HIV. Getting your son circumcised because it MAY lower his risk of contracting HIV…teach him to use a condom properly – don’t make him believe he won’t contract HIV because he doesn’t have a foreskin, because it can happen.
And female circumcision…it all depends on what type you’re talking about. Simply removed the clitoral hood is the same as removing the foreskin. Infibulation, which is removal of the clitoris, labia minora and the clitoral nerves, and sewing the labia majoria together except for a small hole for urine and menstural blood to pass. It’s meant for the woman to be completely smooth from naval to anus. That is type 3 female circumcision, according to the World Health Organization. And this type is usually done without any type of anaesthetic.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
No child born to this Christian family will be circumcised. Jesus was circumcised, as someone pointed out, because he was Jewish; he was also crucified when he was 33 years old, as a sacrifice for all humankind. His blood is sufficient for all; no one is required to be circumcised, no one is required to be crucified just because Jesus was. There can be no “Christian” circumcision. Those who doubt this should read Romans 2:17-29. Or more to the point, Galatians 5:2-6: Those who seek to justify themselves with circumcision will be cut off from Christ.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
I found this website that seemed fairly unbiased. Although there will always be arguments that doctor’s only do it for the money?!
http://familydoctor.org/042.xml
December 13th, 2006 at 8:05 pm
Hilary,
That familydoctor.org article is somewhat out of date.
We now know that Cervical Cancer is caused by HPV. There is a vaccine available to prevent HPV called Gardasil.
The article also makes no mention of serious and potentially life threatening MRSA infections of the circumcision site.
It also makes no mention of the question of future sexual sensitivity after circumcision. There is controversy over whether circumcised men have as much feeling as their intact peers.
Study: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06646.x
Finally, it makes no mention of the human rights issue. Do parents have the right to chose elective, cosmetic surgery that corrects no medical problem for their child?
December 14th, 2006 at 8:09 am
Male circumcision greatly reduces HIV risk:
http://today.reuters.com/misc/PrinterFriendlyPopup.aspx?type=healthNews&storyID=2006-12-13T205927Z_01_N13463413_RTRUKOC_0_US-AIDS-CIRCUMCISION.xml
December 14th, 2006 at 10:29 am
tal86:
No, actually being RESPONSIBLE and using PROTECTION greatly reduces the risk of HIV.
December 14th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
The WHO (World Health Organization) said today that Circumcision is second to safe sex practices. Period.
In Africa, the vast majority of AIDS cases are from hetrosexual contact…not needles or gay sex. Furthermore, these studies are of men contracting HIV from women.
Safe sexual practices are essential. While circumcision alone may keep one in 20 heterosexual men from getting HIV…it won’t by any means solve the problem.
It is also to be noted that African men who are circumcised have a higher risk of infection during the time the circumcision scar heals AND after surgery they may assume that they can still practice unsafe sex…at perhaps an even higher frequency.
Amercians are not from the same culture as Africans. We should not deduce that babys in the USA should now be circumcised.
Remember that the US has the highest non-religious circumcision rate of any industrialized county and we also have the highest HIV rate. What does that tell you about circumcision?
We need to step back and look at the whole picture before jumping to any conclusions regarding circumcision in Africa or the United States.
December 15th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
The baby’s biological father was right in saying circumcision is not part of the Christian faith. Yes Jewish do it for their faith, but in the New Testament, the bible says you don’t have to be circumcised to be Christian. The Catholic church banned it for hundreds of years.
Anyway, we have a son and did not circumcise him, basically because it’s not our body, so it’s not our choice. Sorry if I offend others, but those who do it for faith, who’s to say your son will continue to choose your faith when he is an adult? If you are doing it to avoid HIV, who’s to say your son will engage in risky sex as an adult? If you do it to guard against penile cancer, how do you know he will live long enough to be at risk?
Circumcision is a one-way road that we did not choose to push our son down.
September 1st, 2007 at 10:36 pm
3 kinds of people circumcise their children:
1) stupid people
2) ignorant people
3) evil people
September 9th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
I hope she doesn’t. I think it is wrong to perform such a painful traumatic procedure on a child – he is old enough to remember, but not old enough to understand – the worst age.
Even the USA rates of circumcision are falling and as your article has been corrected to say, no other Western countries do it.
Adoptive parent or not, I think it is wrong of her to think she can permanently alter anybody else’s genitals for cosmetic reasons.